[Sidefx-houdini-list] bake shader?

Mark Davies mdavies at sidefx.com
Mon Apr 4 10:49:34 EDT 2016


Hi Zoran,

That looks to be an interesting project :) You can indeed get quite 
close to Substance with Houdini, especially when combining baked shaders 
and COPs. There are some exciting new shading outputs coming as well, 
which will offer similar functions to Substance.

Let us know how you go with your work, and especially if you have any 
ideas on improving the documentation or workflow of the baking tools.

Cheers,
Mark

On 04/04/2016 08:58 AM, Zoran Arizanovic wrote:
> Hi Mark
> it is good system and once bugs and docs are there it will be very robust.
> What I am doing at the moment I am looking into these
> https://vimeo.com/113735179
> and then try to mockup and build something in houdini that could compete
> with substance designer output.
> Most of the students here are using quixel and substance , and me being
> houdini fan keep telling them that they can build similar stuff in H and
> now also bake it out :)
>
> thanks for help
> Zoran
>
>
> Zoran Arizanovic
> LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/pub/zoran-arizanovic/4/177/295>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Mark Davies <mdavies at sidefx.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Zoran,
>>
>> Mixing your inputs in this way will definitely work, and has been used by
>> other artists to get around this limitation. Please let us know if you have
>> any questions about the setup.
>>
>> In terms of documentation for the bake setup, what would you like to see?
>> More example scenes? More detailed docs? Thanks for any input.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Mark
>>
>> On 04/04/2016 08:38 AM, Zoran Arizanovic wrote:
>>
>>> thanks Mark
>>> I will try to simplify it like you mention
>>> and use vop mix
>>> looking forward to fixes in new release
>>> regards
>>> Zoran
>>>
>>> Zoran Arizanovic
>>> LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/pub/zoran-arizanovic/4/177/295>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 2:36 PM, Mark Davies <mdavies at sidefx.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>> There is a known issue when baking layered shaders, related to how
>>>> exports
>>>> are set in Mantra. This will be addressed in a future release.
>>>>
>>>> Note that you can layer your inputs rather than the shaders themselves.
>>>> For example, instead of having two shaders with different roughness
>>>> values
>>>> you can create a 'Mix' VOP mixing between two values based on a mask
>>>> texture, feeding that into a single shader's roughness parameter. If you
>>>> would like I can set up an example scene.
>>>>
>>>> The bake setup has been simplified for the next release, and will not
>>>> require the use of a separate Bake Shader. The extra image planes work as
>>>> expected in this case.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Mark
>>>>
>>>> On 04/04/2016 05:30 AM, Zoran Arizanovic wrote:
>>>>
>>>> anyone follow up on this?
>>>>> diff clr doesnt respect layering but renders one of inputs in my case
>>>>> layer
>>>>> B input diffuse?
>>>>> also if in current build I switch bake shader layers on/off they still
>>>>> keep
>>>>> rendering after bake shader is disabled?
>>>>>
>>>>> all in all it is quite a leaky bake setup, and for such a feature badly
>>>>> documented :(
>>>>>
>>>>> Zoran Arizanovic
>>>>> LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/pub/zoran-arizanovic/4/177/295>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Zoran Arizanovic <
>>>>> zoran.arizanovic at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I have another issue
>>>>>
>>>>>> I am layering principled shader it renders ok in mplay/mantra
>>>>>> when i try to bake extra image plane diff_clr i get just one of those
>>>>>> layered shaders?
>>>>>> All is wired into layer and output inside material shader builder
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Zoran Arizanovic
>>>>>> LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/pub/zoran-arizanovic/4/177/295>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 3:48 PM, François Duchesneau <sidefx at trinix.ca
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The issue I had is gone with a newer version. I tried with 15.0.431.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks Mark
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Francois
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 03/30/2016 09:10 AM, Mark Davies wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for helping with this. And if you get a chance, updating to the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> latest build of H15.0 should resolve the issue for you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 03/30/2016 09:01 AM, François Duchesneau wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sounds exactly like the issue I had before. Good to hear it's fixed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'll try that and provide you with an example file if the problem is
>>>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>>>> there.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Francois
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 03/30/2016 08:46 AM, Mark Davies wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi François,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is likely the same issue that was resolved with the scale: the
>>>>>>>>>> shading derivatives were scale-dependent, which resulted in blurry
>>>>>>>>>> shading.
>>>>>>>>>> Note that you can always increase the shading quality to get the
>>>>>>>>>> level of
>>>>>>>>>> sharpness you require:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>        Edit Rendering Parameters...
>>>>>>>>>>            Mantra > Dicing > Shading Quality (vm_shadingquality)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Increasing this will result in sharper baked textures.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Also, if you could provide an example file showing the issues with
>>>>>>>>>> noise it would be helpful. Thank you.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 03/30/2016 08:36 AM, François Duchesneau wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I've had the same issue while baking a pattern with a noise through
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the new Bake Rop. The bug has to do with the anti-aliasing which
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> wrongly
>>>>>>>>>>> evaluated in the bake.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Another way to bypass the issue is not use an anti-alias noise.
>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe
>>>>>>>>>>> SideFx could provide a switch on those problematic noise to
>>>>>>>>>>> deactivate the
>>>>>>>>>>> anti-aliasing.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Francois
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/30/2016 08:28 AM, Gerbrand Nel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ok it was scale
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I had to make a copy and scale it down to 0.01 scale for it to
>>>>>>>>>>>> work.
>>>>>>>>>>>> How annoying!!
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 30/03/2016 14:16, Gerbrand Nel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> its not layered, but my scene is huge
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The grid I'm rendering hase a base size of 10000 x 10000
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trying to see if scaling it down does the trick
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 30/03/2016 12:35, Zoran Arizanovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> how is shader setup
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is it layered principled , I had problems with that one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> check example files from sidefx they are annotated so you can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> replace their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> geo with yours easily and see if that works
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Zoran Arizanovic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/zoran-arizanovic/4/177/295
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 12:16 PM, Gerbrand Nel <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g at cannonballbunny.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought that would do it, but i just got black...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rebuilt the shader to be constant for the bake..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now i just get some texture in places occluded by other geo.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Soo frustrating :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 30/03/2016 12:07, Zoran Arizanovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just check difusse color pass on extra image planes tab
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Zoran Arizanovic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/zoran-arizanovic/4/177/295
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 11:59 AM, Gerbrand Nel <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g at cannonballbunny.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How would i set it to render the color unshaded?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I need the texture that is driving diffuse?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 30/03/2016 10:12, Zoran Arizanovic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am struggling with bake as well :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as I understand bake shader is for transferring from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> high poly to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> low poly object
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as we do it for games, baking look, and normal maps
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you just want to bake a render pass into UV's bake to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> texture rop
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be fine as long as you tell it which object and which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> render
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pass to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bake
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for me it was confusing as they are both on located on bake
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> texture
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rop
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but those are actually two different processes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in latest build there is a basic example file
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Zoran Arizanovic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/zoran-arizanovic/4/177/295>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Gerbrand Nel <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g at cannonballbunny.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey guys
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been trying to get this to work, but I just want to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> check
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being dumb, or if the bake function is not meant to do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've created a displacement using noise at shader level.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I want to convert this procedural texture to a bitmap,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bake, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> far I'm only getting a green render.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can this be done, or am I using the bake function for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something it was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended for?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> G
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