[Sidefx-houdini-list] Modeling questions

craigleehoffman at aol.com craigleehoffman at aol.com
Wed Feb 18 12:44:25 EST 2009


 


 EXACTLY!!

I just demo'ed modeling in Houdini and just had one big window open.  You don't NEED to see the network- most of the important tool options are at the top of the viewer window and you can easily open a floating parameter window for the tool options also.  Just choose the tools and work interactively and forget about proceduralism if you want.  I think most Houdini users don't really know how to take advantage of the new interface and modeling workflow- it isn't as bad as it used to be and it really isn't that different than other packages if you resist the temptation to futz with the network.  For instance, the Edit SOP is far more powerful and interactive than it used to be with standard axis handles, a peak handle option, a falloff option, etc.  You can just keep grabbing and moving stuff interactively with hotkeys for everything you want pretty much.

The modelers here at Laika were pleasantly impressed with modeling in Houdini.  Sure, it didn't do everything they wanted (I got a list of everything they wanted to see done and there were only a couple I couldn't replicate- and those have been discussed in this thread), and it was a little clunky at times, but it does the majority of things that are needed quite sufficiently and also does things that other packages don't do.

I think there needs to be a decent tutorial on subD modeling in Houdini since no one has done anything decent other than 3DBuzz and Peter Bowmar back in the H5 
and H6 days.  (At least I couldn't find much recent stuff besides procedural modeling tutorials anyway...)

I only model in Houdini because I don't really like Maya and don't have access to other "modeling only" packages since most of them aren't on Linux and I don't want to buy them at home for my Windows box.  (Plus I don't model a lot and don't want to invest time to learn a new package when Houdini 9.5 does about everything I need generally.)

And yes, I am an old "PRISMS Guy", but believe me the new modeling workflow is nothing like it used to be and is far more "User Friendly"- the problem is mostly in education I believe.

-Craig



 

-----Original Message-----
From: Simon Barrick <simon at primalpictures.com>
To: sidefx-houdini-list at sidefx.com
Sent: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 8:48 am
Subject: Re: [Sidefx-houdini-list] Modeling questions










I think your missing my point, when you model in houdini if you ignore the sop 
chain that is non-procedural modelling. 
Think of it this way, if the user experience working in the viewport "felt" the 
same as silo or whatever and you couldn't see the sops being created how would 
you know the difference between having all the tools in the edit sop and having 
separate sops for each one. The sops are just the history recorded in a 
different way. 

-----Original Message-----
From: sidefx-houdini-list-bounces at sidefx.com [mailto:sidefx-houdini-list-bounces at sidefx.com] 
On Behalf Of Pablo Giménez
Sent: 18 February 2009 15:51
To: sidefx-houdin
i-list at sidefx.com
Subject: Re: [Sidefx-houdini-list] Modeling questions

2009/2/18 Simon Barrick <simon at primalpictures.com>

> I really, really didn't want to get involved in this thread, but I 
> can't stop myself.
> Why do you need to put the polysplit sop "inside" the edit sop? How 
> does this benefit you, what is the difference between selecting the 
> polysplit option that just happens to create a new sop as opposed to 
> selecting one that doesn't? So you end up with a load of sops, so 
> what, you can just hide them or delete them anyway.
> Surely all you need is a bunch of shortcuts that just let you select 
> the sop you want to use without having to break your workflow. Other 
> than that what you suggest doesn't seem to actually change anything.

Because sometimes you want to go fast and forget the procedural way, is just 
this.
Of course, the tools you want to put in a supposed modelSOP can be another 
thread of discussion, and maybe is a little oftopic here, I put only an example, 
I think the idea is clear, what to put and not, in a node that allows to model 
in a linear fashion could be  another discussion.
And I am agree with you, selection tools, and reselect geometry for the current 
operatopn (the last time I tried didn't work), needs a rework.

>
> Having said that I really, really want the selection tools totally 
> over hauled, that area I would say is the slowest part of modelling in 
Houdini.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Fro
m: sidefx-houdini-list-bounces at sidefx.com [mailto:
> sidefx-houdini-list-bounces at sidefx.com] On Behalf Of Pablo Giménez
> Sent: 18 February 2009 15:26
> To: sidefx-houdini-list at sidefx.com
> Subject: Re: [Sidefx-houdini-list] Modeling questions
>
> Jeje we continue the historic discussion about Modelling in Houdini.
> Well I think that Nicholas has explained it really well, and as him, I 
> also think that houdini also needs a tool a more advanced and flexible 
> than the current editSOP.
> I understand to all the people who thinks that SESI shoudn't waste 
> time on this, but the  thing is that almost all the tools are there 
> ,they only needs to be mor intuitive/linera some times.
> For instance the editSOP is like a transform/sculpt in the same tool. 
> Take it further add all the features from the soft Transform, blast, 
> polySplit, poleBevel, polyExtrude and subdivide (maybe I forget some), 
> in the same tool.
> Make it intuitive and easy to change between all of them but witout 
> leaving ythe edit tool and you are done. All the tools are already 
> coded, you need to find a way to put all together in an easy and 
> intuitive way for the final user.
> At the end you get the linear way of  working reusing your procedural 
> tools.
> For tools like Knife that can be replaced by the ckipSOP with some 
> predefined settings, there are many modelling tools from other 
> packages you can replicate in Houdini using some nodes, you can use 
> the shelf to craete a s
et of modelling tool more familiar to modellers 
> and just using your current operators with some predefined settings, 
> this is the power of having general tools under the hood that can be drived by 
scripts.
> My another 2 cents
>
> 2009/2/18 Nicholas Pliatsikas <nick_p102 at hotmail.com>
>
> >
> > To be honest, ive modelled in 
> > lightwave/modo/maya/3dsmax/nendo/wings3d
> > and houdini. As an artists modelling tool houdini is terrible, its 
> > really isnt intuitive in anyway and does get in your way from an 
> > artistic
> point of view.
> > But in procedural sense a techinical artists can make the most of 
> > houdini, generating tools todo general modelling tasks that would 
> > take alot of effort to build by hand or too script.
> >
> > From HDAs that can create custom tanks or buildings to a simple 
> > window generator or broken wall tool you cant beat houdini. But as 
> > soon as you get down to pure modelling in any artistic way it falls over.
> >
> > I would vote for a special modelling environment within houdni, such 
> > as a modelSop node. When you dive into it you can model and paint in 
> > an artistic and non historic way(apart from an undo of course), 
> > giving you access to good quality polymodelling tools while mainting 
> > any custom houdini attributes.
> >
> > Straight organic modelling doesnt need a history, how many people 
> > build a head add the nose eyes etc then think oh damn i wish i had 
> > my h
istory stack so i could change the resolution of my intial box 
> > mesh... but that would destroy your mesh further down the line most 
> > of the time procedural modelling isnt needed. Unless your model will 
> > need the abilty to edit specific elements in an HDA, we could easily 
> > use some sort of modelling node that means people dont always have 
> > to revert to exporting objs to there favourite modelling package.
> >
> > The way houdini models is one of the reasons why many artists stay 
> > away from it as an artists/illustrative tool which i think is shame 
> > as it has so many great aspects that can help them get on with there work.
> >
> > Just my two pennies ;¬)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 10:46:13 +0100
> > > From: ben.schrijvers at guerrilla-games.com
> > > To: sidefx-houdini-list at sidefx.com
> > > Subject: Re: [Sidefx-houdini-list] Modeling questions
> > >
> > > Hi there,
> > >
> > > I recognize a lot in Garman's email :-)
> > >
> > > Models in Houdini are quite often not only the shape but have 
> > > important attributes.
> > > Or the topology could be important for example the point order 
> > > could be part of an animation set up.
> > > All part of modeling if you would ask me... which is where the 
> > > difficulty lies.
> > > The definition of modeling is different for everybody.
> > > People used to Houdini often find that the definition other people 
> > > use 
quite limited.
> > > People used to other tools might miss certain features in Houdini 
> > > that would speed up their workflow.
> > >
> > > I would vote for SESI not to invest too much in innovating 
> > > interactive modeling.
> > > Let other software company's do that and "borrow" new idea's that 
> > > are
> > good.
> > >
> > > Problem and power of Houdini is that it has very generic tools.
> > > Like the Clip Sop. Sure you can turn that into a knife.
> > > I now use the Clip Sop to clip at a certain value of an attribute 
> > > in my geomerty.
> > > I geuss I can paint that value interactive as well...
> > > So it means SESI needs to try and translate a feature request into 
> > > something generic.
> > > Which I think they did very well in the past.
> > >
> > > cheers,
> > > benS
> > >
> > > Garman Lists wrote:
> > > > Well... hum...  You don't get around much do you?
> > > >
> > > > There are many many things so easy to model in Houdini it's 
> > > > pointless
> > to
> > > > do in another package.  Of course, you need to model the right 
> > > > kinds of things.
> > > >
> > > > When I've worked on effects at DD I often have to remodel the 
> > > > geometry
> > I
> > > > get before I can do the effects with them.  Most times modelers 
> > > > don't think (naturally) about how to best model the object so we 
> > > > can destruct it.  Because
 they don't really know what we need to 
> > > > do.  So I often use Houdini to remodel the object, sure, often 
> > > > using the original as much
> > as
> > > > I can.
> > > >
> > > > One example was on Stealth to get the rain flowing over the 
> > > > surface of the jet.  The original surface was too complex and 
> > > > not really valid for collisions and sliding particles.  So I 
> > > > projected
> > > > (ray'ed) a surface on to the maya (?) model to get the best 
> > > > effects
> model.
> > > >
> > > > For other kinds of models which Houdini isn't that great at, I 
> > > > go for the "right brain" software like Modo.
> > > >
> > > > I tell my studnets to make lists of object which can best be 
> > > > modeled procedurally and go from there.  In a way, I hope that 
> > > > SESI does not concentrate on modeling tools as using Modo or 
> > > > something other is great for those kinds of models.
> > > >
> > > > :)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > James Rutherford wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> who models in Houdini...seriously....the only people I've ever 
> > > >> met who
> > model in Houdini are the old Prisms guys...and all the schools teach 
> > is how to take a Maya rigged model and stick some dust on it....
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> ________________________________________
> > > >> From: sidefx-houdini-list-bounces at sidefx.com [
> > sidefx-houdini-li
st-bounces at sidefx.com] On Behalf Of Pablo Giménez [ 
> > pablogipi at gmail.com]
> > > >> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 7:09 PM
> > > >> To: sidefx-houdini-list at sidefx.com
> > > >> Subject: Re: [Sidefx-houdini-list] Modeling questions
> > > >>
> > > >> 2009/2/11 Peter Bowmar <pbowmar at gmail.com>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>> It's not freehand though, and is super clumsy compared to
> > Lightwave's.
> > > >>> I've asked for this for about 10 years now :)
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >> Be patient my friend someday SESI will decide to improve 
> > > >> modelling in houdini, someday ......
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>> 2009/2/11 Jerry <jerry at axyzfx.com>:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> I think the knife operation can be achieved using the clip SOP.
> > > >>>> You just retain the above and below plane objects and it'll
> > automatically
> > > >>>> fuse the join.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> Are there any good interactive ways in Houdini to do these 
> > > >>>>> sorts of
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>> modeling operations:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>> Edge loop splitting? A
> > > >>>>> tool that adds a new span that you can slide to position 
> > > >>>>> along a
> > run of
> > > >>>>> quads in the mesh. Like edge loop select that splits the
> selection.
> > > >>>>> ? I know we can make a new edge loop all the way around an 
> > > >>>>> object,
> > but
> >20> >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>> can we "slide" it's positioning?..
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>> Knife? Knife
> > > >>>>> is similar to splitting but it just splits poly's based on 
> > > >>>>> camera projected lines that you drag to position. It just 
> > > >>>>> splits across
> > the
> > > >>>>> mesh regardless of edge runs, literally slicing across the 
> > > >>>>> mesh,
> > but
> > > >>>>> only in straight lines..
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Selecting an edge ring? Selecting edges that are 
> > > >>>>> perpendicular to
> > edge
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>> loops (I think...)
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>> Sliding an edge/vert along the surface? Moves it along the
> > guestimated
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>> volume (I think..)
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>> thanks,
> > > >>>>> Craig
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sidefx-houdini-list mailing list
> > > Sidefx-houdini-list at sidefx.com
> > > https://lists.sidefx.com:443/mailman/listinfo/sidefx-houdini-list
> >
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> >
>
>
>
> --
>
>=2
0Un saludo
> Best Regards
> Pablo Giménez
> _______________________________________________
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--

Un saludo
Best Regards
Pablo Giménez
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