[Sidefx-houdini-list] "You can't polish a turd" - was Siggraph & Maya..

François Duchesneau sidefx at trinix.ca
Wed Aug 19 08:54:30 EDT 2009


I second on stability. I'm not sure it's still an issue because I 
haven't used it for a while. This is the only thing I would like to be 
fixed before major improvement in the 3d side.

François
>
> The part I miss most* in cops are stability and speed, with stability
> on a first place.
>
> cheers,
> skk.
>
> * - well, I would also like to have HOM access to plates in cops, like
> a numpy array on demand. This would be convenient hook for rapid
> custom tool development :)
>
>
>
> (and only quitcktime, not wmv etc), this feature was rarely used by me.
>
> 2009/8/19 fudini <fudini at gmail.com>:
>   
>> Most of the codecs mentioned are designed for distribution and playback.
>> They are "industry standard" for these purposes but aren't designed to
>> be used as source. They are compressed, lossy and undesirable for high
>> quality source material. A few are designed for editing (DNxHD, ProRes)
>> because they use sequential frames and don't have to deal with the usual
>> IPB frame compression found in most playback codecs.
>> While most compositing packages "can" load these codecs in Quicktime/Avi
>> wrappers the vast majority of these codecs just can't handle the the
>> color range required for high end film work. When quality matters in
>> film compositing we most often use single frames stored in a log format
>> such as dpx to preserve as wide a gamut as possible, composite in 32 bit
>> float linear and output again in log to be printed to film. Playback,
>> editing, source are entirely different things. Different purposes,
>> different standards.
>>
>> Drew Whitehouse wrote:
>>     
>>> The problem *is* the cross platform support and the myriad codecs each of
>>> the container formats allow (mov, avi, wmv, mkv etc), and many of them
>>> proprietry and/or platform specific. Movie formats are also a hornets nest
>>> of patents. Touch only runs on windows, so they can take advantage of MS's
>>> DirectShow libs and Apples quicktime libs. I wouldn't be suprised if there
>>> wasn't more lines of code in the VLC movie player than in the entire houdini
>>> suite.
>>>
>>> -Drew
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 1:55 PM, <craigleehoffman at aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>       
>>>> There are free utilities written by lone programmers in their spare time
>>>> that support most (maybe all?) of the formats you mention on XP, so my
>>>> feeling is that it isn't that hard.? Generally you don't update the code-
>>>> folks just download new codecs I think.? I could be wrong though- not sure
>>>> how this all?works when coding for multiple Operating Systems.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And all compositing programs I know except for COPs can read a variety of
>>>> standard Movie Formats.? Derivative Inc. supported streaming movie formats
>>>> in real time?in their "Touch" software, which was an offshoot of Houdini.
>>>>
>>>> ?
>>>>
>>>> That being said, I would at least suggest supporting Quicktime since most
>>>> people doing film work or video can supply that much easier than a stream of
>>>> single frames and it seems like a fairly ubiquitous professional format
>>>> across the different OS's.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -Craig
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Gene Dreitser <keyframe at rogers.com>
>>>> To: sidefx-houdini-list at sidefx.com
>>>> Sent: Tue, Aug 18, 2009 7:07 pm
>>>> Subject: Re: [Sidefx-houdini-list] "You can't polish a turd" - was Siggraph
>>>> & Maya..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think the notion of a 'movie file' is what is fundamentally out of place
>>>> here.
>>>>
>>>> QT, AVI, WMV, FLV, the list goes on and on -- and I would imagine that
>>>> keeping
>>>> up with all the idiosyncrasies of each flavour, would take a small army of
>>>> developers to keep up with.  In fact, I can't think of a single app that
>>>> 'just
>>>> reads it all' correctly -- if it existed, i'm sure it would find a great
>>>> place
>>>> in our collective tool chests.
>>>>
>>>> I don't believe that this apps' place is in the compositing space.  editing
>>>> perhaps?  maybe as a conform tool of sorts?  but not compositing.
>>>>
>>>> just my $0.02.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> G
>>>>
>>>>  --
>>>> Gene Dreitser
>>>> Loki Visual Effects
>>>> p: 416.532.5654 // c: 416.803.0682 // www.lokivfx.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>>> From: "craigleehoffman at aol.com" <craigleehoffman at aol.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And my understanding is that there are pretty standard API's out there
>>>> to read movie files as long as you download the codec.  It probably could
>>>> be coded in a very short time (although I don't know how well it would
>>>> play with COPs caching, etc.).
>>>>
>>>> Maybe there are licensing fees and such that we are not thinking about.
>>>>
>>>> But this is a good example of why it would be great to have such an
>>>> ability in COPs.
>>>>
>>>> -Craig
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 18, 2009, at 10:17 AM, Larry Giunta wrote:
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> I think this sounds like a pretty reasonable request that makes a lot
>>>>> of sense.
>>>>>
>>>>> Personally, we just finished a job where we needed 60+ HD footage
>>>>> clips mapped onto a bunch of billboard/grids in a 3D environment.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, we had to first convert all of the movie files to an image
>>>>> sequence for import into COPs ........ then we could finally
>>>>> converted those image sequences to .rat sequences for texture maps.
>>>>> Just one extra step, but across 60 HD clips it adds up.
>>>>>
>>>>> We're on linux though. I wonder if this can already be done on the
>>>>> Mac or Windows version by playing the movie through mplay and
>>>>> exporting directly to .rat sequences.
>>>>> Is that already doable??
>>>>>
>>>>> In any event, I do understand the emphasis on dedicating the majority
>>>>> of resources to the 3D aspects of t
>>>>>           
>>>> he package.
>>>>         
>>>>> But COPs continues to be an extremely useful part of Houdini and a
>>>>> bit of updating (such as supporting industry standard movies) seems
>>>>> like it would be worth the effort.
>>>>>
>>>>> Larry
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>>>> COPs needs to support industry standard Movie Files and needs some
>>>>>> other industry standard filters added
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
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