[Sidefx-houdini-list] "You can't polish a turd" - was Siggraph & Maya..

Martin Matzeder hip at booyabase.de
Sun Aug 16 02:02:39 EDT 2009


I second that. I want 3D stuff to be improved. For tracking I use a 
tracking software.
Stability, speed and new features.

I'm not sure if I remember right, but I think Toxic is dead now ( from 
the developement point). And on the Autodesk Softimage part there is now 
Facerobot embedded into Softimage.
I can rembember 2 other products with a similar life. Bahavior and 
Batchserve. Their history goes like that :
Unbelievable expensive and hyped >> Embedded and sold with the 
mainpackage >> Dead
What kind of customer relationship is that. Imagine You are on of the 
guys that paid the price. And I don't think it is going to be better 
with Autodesk. The first contact with autodesk goes like this. "You have 
to pay maintenance for Your licenses, otherwise You can not upgrade,  
You have to pay the full price again." and " You have 4 days left to 
decide" (I'm not sure if there were guns involved, but it felt like this 
;-) ).

Martin

I cross my fingers to get Houdini


François Duchesneau wrote:
> Although I appreciate to do my pre-comp in Houdini I would prefer faster 
> sim in Dop and other addition to the 3d world. Same thing about 2d 
> tracking, other softwares are already good with that and I feel there 
> will never be an end to improve that part of the software. Those softs 
> will always be better with their specialities I think.
>
> My ten cents.
>
> François
>
> craigleehoffman at aol.com wrote:
>   
>> The problem is "we" all know this, but the people writing the checks for software purchases don't and they like to write one check for one application and save money as much as possible.  If Maya does everything that is perceived that needs to be done (and includes a bunch of Mental Ray licenses with it) it gets harder for those of us in the trenches to justify the extra cost of Houdini, especially when some kid can come in and do a decent "smoke" or "fire" or "cloth" sim in Maya in seconds and have it be almost interactive and render super fast.
>>
>>
>>
>> So maybe I should just re-word this as a plea to Side Effects for a few things to help establish parity with Maya 2010- here are my thoughts:
>>
>>
>>
>> COPs needs to support industry standard Movie Files and needs some other industry standard filters added
>>
>>
>> COPs memory bugs need to be fixed to stop crashing (even though I can work around it by constantly emptying my cache)
>>
>>
>> COPs needs a 2D Tracker/Image Stabilization and a 3D MatchMover (perhaps license and integrate something cheap like SynthEyes) 
>>
>>
>> Improve hardware rendering support (check out what Autodesk is doing with Mudbox and what people are doing in Blender)
>>
>>
>> Speed up DOPs more and allow for simpler dynamics options that are less accurate but much faster
>>
>>
>> More tutorials on basic character rigging, muscles, and animator workflow (and bring back "Pose Library",etc.)
>>
>>
>>
>> -Craig
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Andrew D Lyons <tstexture at gmail.com>
>> To: sidefx-houdi
>> ni-list at sidefx.com
>> Sent: Sat, Aug 15, 2009 11:37 am
>> Subject: [Sidefx-houdini-list] "You can't polish a turd" - was Siggraph & Maya..
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Anyone remember Softimage v4? It was the only available production
>> release of Softimage during numerous years while the various owners
>> developed Sumatra/XSI. Softimage's various owners did everything they
>> could to add value to the existing package to try and stay
>> competitive. They even created software bundles that included
>> compositors - but users were keenly aware that nothing much was
>> changing in the core application. The bottom line was that they had
>> reached the end of the line with the fundamental architecture of the
>> software, and needed to do a total rewrite in order to add new
>> features that wouldn't break the existing code. In the meantime,
>> Houdini reached maturity, and early versions of Maya pretty much
>> cornered the character end of the market that Softimage had dominated
>> up until then.
>>
>> I see a similar parallel with Maya now. Adding value by tacking on
>> external applications in this way suggests the software has reached
>> the end of the line as a viable platform for future development. As
>> with Softimage v4, the danger right now for Autodesk is that people
>> will move to other applications while the existing software is starved
>> of new features, and/or goes through all the pains that come with
>> early versions of a total rewrite. So many industry people have
>> freaked-out about a rumored 3d Max/Maya/XSI merger that big
>> announcements about "major changes", "mergers" or "rewri
>> tes" seems to
>> be being downplayed or delayed as long as possible. Starting with the
>> UI replacement next year though, I think we can safely say that a
>> rewrite is happening covertly, and users of that app should be aware
>> that the water is slowly, gradually starting to get very hot...
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> 2009/8/15 Abdelkareem Abonamous <anamous at gmail.com>:
>>   
>>     
>>> Features are nothing if the workflow is broken. For heavy fx stuff,
>>> Maya is currently in limbo - nParticles sounds good on paper but our
>>> TD's having been pulling their hair over it, nucleus in general is
>>> still very rudimentary, and let's not talk about caching, retiming,
>>> post-processing particles etc.. Not saying that Houdini is without it
>>> quirks and I certainly am not putting down Maya, but the big picture
>>> IMO is that the Houdini workflow and approach are much more sane.
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>> Abdelkareem
>>>
>>> On Aug 15, 2009, at 3:12 PM, Peter Robbinson wrote:
>>>
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> On the other side of the cost equation Autodesk has made it
>>>> significantly more costly for schools.
>>>>
>>>> PeterR
>>>>
>>>> craigleehoffman at aol.com wrote:
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>>>> Didn't make it to Siggraph but heard that Maya will soon be
>>>>> "Unlimited" only and will include 5 Mental Ray licenses, the Toxik
>>>>> Compositor, and a 3D Tracker.
>>>>>
>>>>> So for roughly the same price as Houdini at it's current 50% off
>>>>> price (I think- not sure on pricing) Maya folks will be able to
>>>>> work with industry standard Video files in their compositor (COPs
>>>>> only handles individual frames much to my 
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>> chagrin), be able to
>>   
>>     
>>>>> track a 3D camera from that footage to bring right into Maya, do 3D
>>>>> Paint of color, bump, etc. maps on the surface of models, have
>>>>> decent hardware shading support, have a good fast solution for
>>>>> character clothing (n-Cloth), and have fast fluids and cloth and
>>>>> wire deformers- all of which Houdini (which used to be a more
>>>>> complete solution) lacks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Suddenly I think Houdini is going to be a much harder sell for
>>>>> those of us who prefer it.? :(
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have to add that after working more in Houdini's DOPs in H10 more
>>>>> recently (wire deformers and fluids) and then seeing how simple and
>>>>> fast Maya's are to simulate and render I was quite dismayed.? I am
>>>>> not convinced the quality of Maya's dynamics are as good or
>>>>> flexible or powerful as Houdini's, but they certainly return
>>>>> 'usable' results much quicker right out of the box.? There are a
>>>>> lot of times where you want a small simple fast dynamics solution
>>>>> and that is a niche that Houdini hasn't been able to deliver on
>>>>> just yet, although it has gotten a lot better in recent iterations.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Craig
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Sidefx-houdini-list mailing list
>>>>> Sidefx-houdini-list at sidefx.com
>>>>> https://lists.sidefx.com:443/mailman/listinfo/sidefx-houdini-list
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>>>> --
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>>>>         
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>>   
>>     
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>>
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>>     
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