[Sidefx-houdini-list] basic instancing question

Pablo Giménez pablogipi at gmail.com
Tue Oct 28 18:11:53 EDT 2008


mmmm and how I can implement spherical shading in Mantra?

2008/10/28 Olex P <hoknamahn at gmail.com>

> Yep, any interpolation which could make a flat object (grid, circle) look
> 3d. Which is impossible for point even if that point has a huge scale and
> covers the whole screen.
>
> On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 11:36 PM, Pablo Giménez <pablogipi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > thanks for the response Olex, also what is spherical shading? is like
> > spherical interpolation of shaded points?
> >
> > 2008/10/27 Olex P <hoknamahn at gmail.com>
> >
> > > Check this out Jon
> > http://omlc.ogi.edu/pubs/prahl-pubs/prahl88/node10.html
> > >
> > > On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 4:06 PM, jon parker <parker.jon at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Olex,
> > > > I'm probably not versed enough to understand what you mean by
> > > > anisotropic scattering with phase functions... is it possible to
> > > > explain that a bit more clearly?
> > > > -Jon
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 2:06 PM, Olex P <hoknamahn at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Yes you can. Point is completely tha same primitive as polygon with
> > > only
> > > > > one... two exceptions:
> > > > > 1. Shader executed once on point (i.e. it's impossible to get
> > spherical
> > > > like
> > > > > shading on the single point)
> > > > > 2. You can't (I dunno why because it still make sense) displace
> > point.
> > > As
> > > > > workaround you can displace them in SOPs.
> > > > > The rest is the same.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 4:56 PM, Pablo Giménez <
> pablogipi at gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> 2008/10/26 Olex P <hoknamahn at gmail.com>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > You could render them as Mantra points (using phase functions
> for
> > > > >> > anisotropic scattering if you need it).
> > > > >> > This could give you:
> > > > >> > 1. Simpler setup
> > > > >> > 2. Good details
> > > > >> > 3. Super fast rendering
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Hey Olex when you render as Mantra points, can you apply a shader
> to
> > > > them?
> > > > >> Or the points only use the Cf and Of point attributes, I remember
> to
> > > > have
> > > > >> had some problems applying shaders to points in the pst, not sure
> > now
> > > > ...
> > > > >>
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 8:55 PM, jon parker <
> parker.jon at gmail.com
> > >
> > > > >> wrote:
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > > Thanks for the repsonse...
> > > > >> > > A colleague also tipped me to using displacement mapping to
> add
> > > > detail
> > > > >> > > to volumes, and it works really well.  For general volumetric
> > > > >> > > rendering I'm in agreement with all of the things below.  With
> > > what
> > > > I
> > > > >> > > have been tasked with, there is a large scale difference in
> the
> > > > nebula
> > > > >> > > as a whole, versus the details we're trying to show... there
> are
> > a
> > > > >> > > large number of tiny 'knots' in the nebula that need to be in
> > the
> > > > >> > > right place according to some astronomical observation data
> I've
> > > > been
> > > > >> > > given.  My first attempt was to birth metaballs from the right
> > > > >> > > locations and render them volumetrically, embedded within the
> > rest
> > > > of
> > > > >> > > the gas volume.  But the shading quality of metaballs doesn't
> > seem
> > > > to
> > > > >> > > be as nice as I hoped.  In fact I ran a test where I converted
> > > them
> > > > to
> > > > >> > > a massive image3d texture, and the shading quality was much
> > nicer,
> > > > but
> > > > >> > > generating it took forever and that really hinders that
> > technique
> > > > for
> > > > >> > > testing.  So my latest idea is to use a lot of knot-shaped
> > volume
> > > > >> > > instances, and displace them in world space to add variety,
> but
> > > they
> > > > >> > > seem to be displaced before they are instanced, and not
> > afterwards
> > > > >> > > like I hoped.  Any other suggestions towards creating them
> this
> > > way?
> > > > >> > > --jon
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 9:01 AM, Pablo Giménez <
> > > pablogipi at gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > >> > > wrote:
> > > > >> > > > Sounds pretty good.
> > > > >> > > > The dispalcement to do the convection is quite interesting
> > > > >> > > >
> > > > >> > > > 2008/10/24 Remba, David (Space Technology) <
> > David.Remba at ngc.com
> > > >
> > > > >> > > >
> > > > >> > > >>
> > > > >> > > >> I've been working on clouds, and had good results
> > > > >> > > >> using simple geometry (spheres, boxed shapes) then
> > > > >> > > >> subdividing to round the shapes, then iso-offset to
> > > > >> > > >> create a low density volume (20x20x20).
> > > > >> > > >>
> > > > >> > > >> The good stuff happens in a custom material:
> > > > >> > > >>
> > > > >> > > >> 1. displacement VOP SHOP uses various noise functions
> > > > >> > > >> to push P around (for clouds: only in the up +Y direction
> > > > >> > > >> to simulate convection, and using an abs() to make it
> > > > >> > > >> puffy looking).  For nebula I would try the built-in
> > > > >> > > >> aanoise VOP.
> > > > >> > > >>
> > > > >> > > >> 2. surface VOP SHOP based from the VEX Volumecloud shader,
> > > > >> > > >> and added extra features for clouds to cut off and
> > > > >> > > >> darken the bottom.  Higher density makes the gas more
> > > > >> > > >> chunky looking, lower values make it more wispy looking
> > > > >> > > >> (good for nebulas).
> > > > >> > > >>
> > > > >> > > >> tips:
> > > > >> > > >>
> > > > >> > > >> Very important to adjust the Volume Step size to as large
> > > > >> > > >> a value as possible (just below the noticeable speckle
> > > artifact).
> > > > >> > > >>
> > > > >> > > >> For fast rendering: try only one or two lights; if you need
> > > > >> > > >> more, do multiple render passes and comp them.  Use Ray
> Trace
> > > > >> > > >> Engine, lower opacity limit to 0.9 if the nebula/clouds are
> > > > >> > > >> chunky.
> > > > >> > > >>
> > > > >> > > >> For nebula you might try some glow effects (see the emit
> > > > >> > > >> in the VEX Super Material shader).
> > > > >> > > >>
> > > > >> > > >> p.s. For nebulas, you might try separating very far objects
> > > > >> > > >> which are more of a 2D problem, from closer 3D objects.
> > > > >> > > >>
> > > > >> > > >> p.p.s. I work at a space technology company so I might get
> > > > >> > > >> to work on nebulas soon also!  I'd like to hear you things
> > > > >> > > >> go for you.  My email:  daveremba at yahoo.com
> > > > >> > > >>
> > > > >> > > >> I hope this helps,
> > > > >> > > >>
> > > > >> > > >> Dave
> > > > >> > > >>
> > > > >> > > >> _______________________________________
> > > > >> > > >> David Remba
> > > > >> > > >> Tel 310 813 5899 Cel 310 809 6375
> > > > >> > > >> Northrop Grumman Space Technology
> > > > >> > > >> IMAGE Center
> > > > >> > > >>
> > > > >> > > >>
> > > > >> > > >>
> > > > >> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > > >> > > >> From: sidefx-houdini-list-bounces at sidefx.com on behalf of
> > jon
> > > > >> parker
> > > > >> > > >> Sent: Wed 10/22/2008 9:13 PM
> > > > >> > > >> To: sidefx-houdini-list at sidefx.com
> > > > >> > > >> Subject: [Sidefx-houdini-list] basic instancing question
> > > > >> > > >>
> > > > >> > > >> Greetings esteemed Houdini masters!
> > > > >> > > >> I've been tasked to create a planetary nebula by some very
> > > > demanding
> > > > >> > > >> scientists... I've done some lighting for studios using
> > Houdini
> > > > in
> > > > >> the
> > > > >> > > >> past, but now the holes in my knowledge about Houdini are
> > > showing
> > > > >> up,
> > > > >> > > >> so I am looking for some basic workflow questions to be
> > cleared
> > > > up.
> > > > >> > > >> For the nebula, the basic gas volume is looking great,
> > however
> > > > there
> > > > >> > > >> are a large number of 'knots' in the nebula that need to be
> > > quite
> > > > >> > > >> detailed.  I tried using volumetric metaballs first, but
> > these
> > > > don't
> > > > >> > > >> seem to shade as nicely as the volume primitives... the
> > density
> > > > >> > > >> gradients don't seem as smooth, and the edge glows just
> > aren't
> > > > there
> > > > >> > > >> like they are with volumes.  Converting them to i3d files
> > gave
> > > me
> > > > a
> > > > >> > > >> much better look, but that's quite time consuming during
> look
> > > > >> > > >> development, since I need at least 1024^3 i3d files to
> > maintain
> > > > the
> > > > >> > > >> detail.  So I've tried instancing volumes to each knot, and
> > > this
> > > > >> > > >> potentially looks best, except I have two questions about
> > it...
> > > > >> > > >> firstly, what is the best way to transfer point attributes
> to
> > > the
> > > > >> > > >> volume?  Secondly, how can I use world space displacement
> on
> > an
> > > > >> > > >> instance?  On the first attempt I discovered that instances
> > > > >> themselves
> > > > >> > > >> are not displaced; instead they pick up the displacement of
> > the
> > > > >> source
> > > > >> > > >> geo before they are instanced.   Aside from this question,
> > > which
> > > > >> > > >> approach makes the most sense?  There are obviously a lot
> of
> > > > >> potential
> > > > >> > > >> paths to take in Houdini.
> > > > >> > > >> Cheers,
> > > > >> > > >> Jon
> > > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > >> > > >> Sidefx-houdini-list mailing list
> > > > >> > > >> Sidefx-houdini-list at sidefx.com
> > > > >> > > >>
> > > > https://lists.sidefx.com:443/mailman/listinfo/sidefx-houdini-list
> > > > >> > > >>
> > > > >> > > >>
> > > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > >> > > >> Sidefx-houdini-list mailing list
> > > > >> > > >> Sidefx-houdini-list at sidefx.com
> > > > >> > > >>
> > > > https://lists.sidefx.com:443/mailman/listinfo/sidefx-houdini-list
> > > > >> > > >>
> > > > >> > > >>
> > > > >> > > >
> > > > >> > > >
> > > > >> > > > --
> > > > >> > > > Un saludo
> > > > >> > > > Best Regards
> > > > >> > > > Pablo Giménez
> > > > >> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > >> > > > Sidefx-houdini-list mailing list
> > > > >> > > > Sidefx-houdini-list at sidefx.com
> > > > >> > > >
> > > https://lists.sidefx.com:443/mailman/listinfo/sidefx-houdini-list
> > > > >> > > >
> > > > >> > > _______________________________________________
> > > > >> > > Sidefx-houdini-list mailing list
> > > > >> > > Sidefx-houdini-list at sidefx.com
> > > > >> > >
> > https://lists.sidefx.com:443/mailman/listinfo/sidefx-houdini-list
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > _______________________________________________
> > > > >> > Sidefx-houdini-list mailing list
> > > > >> > Sidefx-houdini-list at sidefx.com
> > > > >> >
> https://lists.sidefx.com:443/mailman/listinfo/sidefx-houdini-list
> > > > >> >
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --
> > > > >> Un saludo
> > > > >> Best Regards
> > > > >> Pablo Giménez
> > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > >> Sidefx-houdini-list mailing list
> > > > >> Sidefx-houdini-list at sidefx.com
> > > > >> https://lists.sidefx.com:443/mailman/listinfo/sidefx-houdini-list
> > > > >>
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Sidefx-houdini-list mailing list
> > > > > Sidefx-houdini-list at sidefx.com
> > > > > https://lists.sidefx.com:443/mailman/listinfo/sidefx-houdini-list
> > > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Sidefx-houdini-list mailing list
> > > > Sidefx-houdini-list at sidefx.com
> > > > https://lists.sidefx.com:443/mailman/listinfo/sidefx-houdini-list
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sidefx-houdini-list mailing list
> > > Sidefx-houdini-list at sidefx.com
> > > https://lists.sidefx.com:443/mailman/listinfo/sidefx-houdini-list
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Un saludo
> > Best Regards
> > Pablo Giménez
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sidefx-houdini-list mailing list
> > Sidefx-houdini-list at sidefx.com
> > https://lists.sidefx.com:443/mailman/listinfo/sidefx-houdini-list
> >
> _______________________________________________
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>



-- 
Un saludo
Best Regards
Pablo Giménez



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