[Sidefx-houdini-list] Autodesk bought Softimage

Nicholas Pliatsikas nick_p102 at hotmail.com
Sun Oct 26 09:58:26 EDT 2008


Seems like this discussion is getting into a what app does what and why houdini/softimage is better at certain tasks. Considering it started off as Autodesk buying softimage and how autodesk would affect our cg community. Anyway I think what Andy has been saying is we will use what ever app will get the job done. I.e you dont need a bulldozer to push a dominoe over. And its well to easy for people to disregard an apps feature/workflow when they haven't experienced it, the fact ice is similar in some ways to vops/vex etc doesnt mean it was added by softimage to try to replace houdini. 
 
Technically you could start saying the same about lightwaves displacement node editor, or mayas hypershade hell why not stick blender into the mix. I dont see the point in moaning that this app copied this and that, at the end of the day every 3d app we use has the same bare code at the lowest level, generating data thats the even interchangeable. Polygon, point, vertex, meshes, nurbs, particles, dynamics. Half of the innovations over the years have been happily shared across apps, this is what pushes innovation anyway. Just look at reflection maps to full raytracing :¬D
 
> > > > >> I guess what I'm trying to say is that I think it's a mistake to> > > invest> > > > >> yourself so heavily in one package or tool, it pays to be flexible> > and> > > > >> to> > > > >> examine other possibilities. Dismissing ICE as nothing new because> > it> > > > >> has> > > > >> similarities to VEX and VOPs is only limiting your choices, and I> > > can't> > > > >> see a good reason for doing that.
 
I completely agree with what your saying. 
 
I cant imagine an entire highend studio based on houdini alone, or maya or softimage. Id like to see how happy a modeller would be when given the chance to model a character in houdini... its not quite the artistic solution. While combination of apps like Modo/zbrush suits the needs perfectly. Or a vfx artist trying to do advanced dynamics in lightwave... you would jump off a building I know its driven me mad in the past.... I suppose maya and softimage can cope as the only 3d app in a studio environment but nothing does everything out the box or without a team of TDs/Programmers with those apps, which is another reason why many studios start to involve other apps into the pipeline to fill the gaps.
 
Saying that what I would be worried about is. It doesn't make a lot of sense for autodesk to continue supporting 3 of the main 3d animation apps for the forth coming future. Which will limit our choices, imagine maya/xsi and max did evolve into one app and they stopped supporting the olds ones. Yeah It could take years but every single company across the world even the houdini houses would need to change there workflows and pipeline. Suddenly autodesk drop maya and xsi rip out all there features and stick them into 3dsmax.  Im probably being overdramatic :¬D but who says that cant happen. 
 
It all just feels very wrong that autodesk has purchased every major highend 3d app bar houdini. Lets hope sidefx sticks around for many years to come!!
 
Nick



> Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 10:28:39 -0700> From: ntmonkey at gmail.com> To: sidefx-houdini-list at sidefx.com> Subject: Re: [Sidefx-houdini-list] Autodesk bought Softimage> > Do it if it makes sense and fits the overall design. Otherwise, it's like> slapping on snow chains on a Lamborghini. Useful, but damn tacky.> -Lu> > On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 10:24 AM, Pablo Giménez <pablogipi at gmail.com> wrote:> > > 2008/10/25 Meng-Yang Lu <ntmonkey at gmail.com>> >> > > As for flexibility, it doesn't wire into everything in XSI yet, but who> > > says> > > EVERYTHING has to be procedural? Particles, points, and kinematics are> > > already getting a boost from it, so life is good. Best part is that XSI> > > still feels like XSI and nothing like Houdini (ICE's interface feels> > > familiar to XSI's native rendertree), whereas Houdini now feels like Maya> > > and Firefox (I like the old houdini).> >> >> > If Maya have good things, why not to get them?> > Same for Firefox.> >> >> > >> > >> > > -Lu> > >> > >> > > On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 8:46 AM, Andy Nicholas <andy at andynicholas.com> > > >wrote:> > >> > > > Totally agree, but I don't think they're trying to become Houdini. I> > also> > > > think that even if they were, it'd take them a lot longer than you> > > > mentioned to get anywhere near Houdini.> > > >> > > > As far as I'm concerned, they're just adding features that the XSI> > > > community have been asking for for a long time, it just so happens that> > > > they realise the power of a nodal system. Its unsurprising that> > parallels> > > > are going to be drawn between Houdini and XSI, but I don't think it's a> > > > worthwhile comparison. I've always felt that they're intended for two> > > > different markets (although I think SideFX is trying to widen that> > now).> > > >> > > > A> > > >> > > >> > > > > You can use a Group Sop to get points that are inside a mesh and it's> > > > > fast.> > > > >> > > > > I haven't played with Ice but from what I've heard what has been done> > > is> > > > > great but apart of particles and the equivalent of Vop to deform> > > > > geometry, what else do they have. I really feel they won't reach the> > > > > level of Houdini 9.5 before at least 3-4 years.> > > > >> > > > > François> > > > >> > > > > Andy Nicholas wrote:> > > > >>> SoftImage's innovation on ICE is their marketing,> > > > >>>> > > > >>> > > > >> Have you used it though Ammon? I think you'll find that it's not> > just> > > a> > > > >> pretty, well marketed particle system. It's incredibly fast, and by> > > > >> that,> > > > >> I mean faster than Houdini. This opens up doors to visualising and> > > > >> achieving effects that previously couldn't be done without a lot of> > > > >> extra> > > > >> time, effort, and planning.> > > > >>> > > > >> I don't want this to sound like I'm dissing Houdini and just trying> > to> > > > >> promote ICE, but the reality of production focusses one's attention> > > very> > > > >> quickly onto what the best tool is for the job. I've frequently> > found> > > > >> myself doing things in ICE that I'd never consider doing in Houdini,> > > > >> usually down to computational speed, but also due to the way that> > the> > > > >> workflow in ICE makes it extremely quick to test things out, and it> > > > >> allows> > > > >> you to work at a high level rather than getting lost in the details.> > > > >>> > > > >> For example, a simple node such as "Point in volume" just returns a> > > true> > > > >> or false based on a point posiiton, but it's so incredibly handy> > that> > > I> > > > >> use it all the time. I'm sure I could use a Ray SOP to do something> > > > >> similar, but it's all about convenience. ICE is very convenient when> > > it> > > > >> comes to this sort of thing.> > > > >>> > > > >> When people talk about innovation, I think this can apply in lots of> > > > >> different areas. It doesn't have to be some new algorithm to achieve> > a> > > > >> specific effect, I think it can also be in introducing a new> > standard> > > > >> and> > > > >> ease of workflow. If you've used ICE in production, then you'll know> > > > >> that> > > > >> Softimage has done exactly that.> > > > >>> > > > >> I guess I just don't particularly like to hear people knocking> > > something> > > > >> when they haven't seen the sort of positive affect it's had. The> > guys> > > at> > > > >> Softimage put a lot of work into it and have completely changed the> > > way> > > > >> that we work with effects.> > > > >>> > > > >> All this pro-ICE stuff aside, for the job I'm doing at the moment> > I'd> > > > >> never consider using any other package than Houdini. In terms of the> > > > >> level> > > > >> of control it gives you to manipulate simulations from sources like> > > > >> Realflow for example, it's incredible. I have no doubt that without> > > > >> Houdini my current job wouldn't be feasible.> > > > >>> > > > >> I guess what I'm trying to say is that I think it's a mistake to> > > invest> > > > >> yourself so heavily in one package or tool, it pays to be flexible> > and> > > > >> to> > > > >> examine other possibilities. Dismissing ICE as nothing new because> > it> > > > >> has> > > > >> similarities to VEX and VOPs is only limiting your choices, and I> > > can't> > > > >> see a good reason for doing that.> > > > >>> > > > >> Cheers!> > > > >>> > > > >> Andy> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 3:13 AM, Dragos Stefan <ds_list at dsg.ro>> > > wrote:> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> I totally agree about Houdini's help. I don't think however that> > > > >>>> Softimage's support compares with SESI's. And when it comes to> > ICE,> > > > >>>> well, in my opinion it took far too long for them to come out with> > > it,> > > > >>>> and when they did it showed up there was really no innovation as> > > they> > > > >>>> just copied what SESI did with VEX/VOPs many years ago.> > > > >>>>> > > > >>> SoftImage's innovation on ICE is their marketing, just like it was> > > > >>> when SoftImage> > > > >>> introduced the "world's first"(*) animation software with> > non-linear> > > > >>> animation.> > > > >>>> > > > >>> Cheers,> > > > >>> Ammon> > > > >>> _______________________________________________> > > > >>> Sidefx-houdini-list mailing list> > > > >>> Sidefx-houdini-list at sidefx.com> > > > >>> https://lists.sidefx.com:443/mailman/listinfo/sidefx-houdini-list> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> _______________________________________________> > > > >> Sidefx-houdini-list mailing list> > > > >> Sidefx-houdini-list at sidefx.com> > > > >> https://lists.sidefx.com:443/mailman/listinfo/sidefx-houdini-list> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > _______________________________________________> > > > Sidefx-houdini-list mailing list> > > > Sidefx-houdini-list at sidefx.com> > > > https://lists.sidefx.com:443/mailman/listinfo/sidefx-houdini-list> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > --> > > Meng Yang Lu> > > 3D Operator> > > The Mill LA> > > _______________________________________________> > > Sidefx-houdini-list mailing list> > > Sidefx-houdini-list at sidefx.com> > > https://lists.sidefx.com:443/mailman/listinfo/sidefx-houdini-list> > >> >> >> >> > --> > Un saludo> > Best Regards> > Pablo Giménez> > _______________________________________________> > Sidefx-houdini-list mailing list> > Sidefx-houdini-list at sidefx.com> > https://lists.sidefx.com:443/mailman/listinfo/sidefx-houdini-list> >> > > > -- > Meng Yang Lu> 3D Operator> The Mill LA> _______________________________________________> Sidefx-houdini-list mailing list> Sidefx-houdini-list at sidefx.com> https://lists.sidefx.com:443/mailman/listinfo/sidefx-houdini-list
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