[Sidefx-houdini-list] disappearing HDA parameters

Pablo Giménez Pizarro pablogipi at gmail.com
Thu Jun 5 18:32:40 EDT 2008


Asking to Rachel, ok SESI makes 3D software ... and also pipeline  
tools, HDA are basically a pipeline tool, you can do very similar  
things in the past using hscript and custom panels, HDA gives you a  
tool to manage your assests, in my opinion this is a pipeline tool,  
and this is the reason because I think in Houdini also in a pipeline  
concept not only a 3D tool.
To Paul, and off-topic, debian package systems is by far much much  
better than rpm I remember this messy days with all the rpm and  
dependencies stuff, all the rpm based distros have only copied the apt  
system used in debian to their respectives distros, they  have lost a  
good opprtunity to define a packaging standar in the linux world. At  
the moment HDA have somedependency tracking, a little weak but not too  
bad, fo rme is not the biggest problem, if you have your dependencies  
available it loads it, otherwise you get errors, so you can catch many  
of the problems.
And for the rest seems that many people from small and big houses are  
agree that some version control and management tools are needed here.  
The otlversion hscript command is a proof that SESI knows about this  
but is not a solution.
Maybe we can see something about this in future versions, I hope so.

El 05/06/2008, a las 23:45, Andrew D Lyons escribió:

> Heya - there's a pretty big core, (also dna and dd) influence in how
> Houdini things have evolved here. It's already pretty cool (python!)
> but it's going to be amazing when it's all done.
>
> and HDA manager for all!
>
> Ciao
>
> 2008/6/5 Michael Goldfarb <goldfarb at coredp.com>:
>> The Wild was made almost entirely (like 95%+) without hip files...
>>
>>
>> Andrew D Lyons wrote:
>>> I'm with Paul Simpson and co. on this one.
>>>
>>> We're a big studio, and this has been a big problem for us. If it
>>> wasn't for the fact that we could leverage pipeline code written  
>>> by a
>>> team of 15-20 dedicated programmers to manage our HDA's, it would  
>>> have
>>> been a bigger problem. It would have been great if SESI could have
>>> provided something out of the box, but as has been argued for many
>>> things in the past, generally studios want to do things in their own
>>> way, and until there's an obvious "please everyone" solution -  
>>> nothing
>>> happens.
>>>
>>> The kind of specification that Paul provides above has been broken  
>>> out
>>> before in alpha forums etc. and would make a great starting point  
>>> for
>>> SESI. With galleries shaping up as a good parm saving compliment for
>>> HDAs, HDA's have tremendous potential as a pipeline mechanism with a
>>> comprehensive manager. We don't even use hipfiles anymore, but to  
>>> get
>>> to the point where we could do those kinds of dynamic builds from  
>>> the
>>> pipeline we had to do a lot of parameter and HDA management systems.
>>> I think production houses everywhere would be pleased to get a  
>>> little
>>> more pipeline out of the box from their "pipeline in a box" - aka
>>> Houdini.
>>>
>>> v11 !!
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2008/6/5 Michael Goldfarb <goldfarb at coredp.com>:
>>>
>>>> I think we're confusing /building/ HDAs with /using/ HDAs
>>>>
>>>> in building HDAs, Houdini will make backups for you...and as far  
>>>> as that
>>>> goes you're on your own...it's like hip files...if you break  
>>>> something,
>>>> it's up to you to have a good workflow to save your awn ass...
>>>>
>>>> when /using/ HDAs there are (at least it seems to me) two camps...
>>>> 1 - HDAs are built (by whoever) and dropped into a dir somewhere  
>>>> and
>>>> people working on /shots/ instantiate them and at that moment  
>>>> become
>>>> 'owners' of those instances - they break them open and mess  
>>>> around and
>>>> do whatever they need to to get the shot done (fair enough)...
>>>> I SHUDDER at the thought of working this way...once you crack an  
>>>> HDA
>>>> open you are: on your own and outside the pipeline...and the show  
>>>> is now
>>>> dependent on an individual who may or may not know what they are  
>>>> doing
>>>> and dependent on the communication skills of that person. just  
>>>> too many
>>>> things can/do go wrong in this situation.
>>>>
>>>> 2 - HDAs are built with some fundamental, and IMO vital,
>>>> considerations...among then are compatability, universal  
>>>> applicability,
>>>> centralized management/control, standardization of features/UI...
>>>> this is harder and takes more time but is worth it...
>>>> if an artist needs a change in the features or behavior of the  
>>>> tool he
>>>> or the original make of the HDA makes those changes (in a way  
>>>> that is
>>>> non-destructive to others) then it is published as a new  
>>>> version...this
>>>> way he can use the new version with the needed changes but  
>>>> everyone else
>>>> can use the old version...etc ctc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> if SESI has some time to devote to this I'd suggest it as a  
>>>> subject for
>>>> Jeff's Old School Blog...but as Rachael said, SESI make 3D  
>>>> software not
>>>> pipeline software...
>>>>
>>>> rachael wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> doesnt it make back ups of all your HDAs? I mean really, we're a  
>>>>> small
>>>>> studio, we just have good communication with each other so we  
>>>>> know who's
>>>>> working on what and who shouldnt be messing around inside the HDA.
>>>>> Houdini makes auto backups for us, which is great for when we  
>>>>> break it.
>>>>> Seems pretty straight forward. Even in a larger company, there  
>>>>> shouldnt
>>>>> be 20 people working on one HDA so maybe I'm missing the point  
>>>>> of this
>>>>> long thread. And personally, I wouldnt want SESI trying to  
>>>>> manage my
>>>>> system. They make 3D software not pipeline software, it's a  
>>>>> totally
>>>>> different knowledge base. That's just my two cents. Personally,  
>>>>> i love
>>>>> the way HDAs are set up right now and I'm really looking forward  
>>>>> to the
>>>>> improvements I've heard about in 9.5. Should be even more fun!!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> paul simpson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> 2008/6/4 Michael Goldfarb <goldfarb at coredp.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> this has come up a few times on od[force]
>>>>>>> otl management is /extremely/ important...and once you get  
>>>>>>> them under
>>>>>>> control their power really starts to rock...
>>>>>>> personally I'd rather see SESI spending time on other things  
>>>>>>> rather than
>>>>>>> building pipeline tools that only a very few people, mostly  
>>>>>>> those not in
>>>>>>> a studio environment, will ever use.
>>>>>>> we built a python based system that versions otls in about 2 man
>>>>>>> weeks...and even an hscript system could be done in a short  
>>>>>>> amount of
>>>>>>> time...
>>>>>>> someone with some spare time should do something and put it  
>>>>>>> out for the
>>>>>>> community to help develop...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> if it's so easy then *sesi* should provide a bare bones  
>>>>>> system!  because
>>>>>> anything is better than the current nothing.  whilst the large  
>>>>>> studios do
>>>>>> have their own version control system - many small (and  
>>>>>> surprisingly some
>>>>>> large) shops have poor (or no) established systems.  if sidefx  
>>>>>> wants to
>>>>>> expand it's market share and sell houdini to new users (small  
>>>>>> shops doing
>>>>>> commercials for instance) then imho it needs to provide a more  
>>>>>> complete
>>>>>> package (along with a proper production ready shaders - don't  
>>>>>> get me started
>>>>>> on that).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> for what it's worth (and i've mentioned this many many times  
>>>>>> before) i
>>>>>> believe that a linux like rpm/deb style dependency system is  
>>>>>> whats needed.
>>>>>> the current state of otl management reminds me of pre yast/ 
>>>>>> zypper/yum days
>>>>>> of linux package management.  ie, a complete mess!  i believe  
>>>>>> that proper
>>>>>> otl management *should* be managed by sesi.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> for example: right now, how could you easily publish an asset  
>>>>>> (to exchange
>>>>>> for example) that relies on many other sub assets (say that you  
>>>>>> have either
>>>>>> created or downloaded)?  you can't - or if you can - please do  
>>>>>> tell!  this
>>>>>> is hindering us all sharing assets between projects and each  
>>>>>> other.  this is
>>>>>> a core function that should be provided with the package.  (and  
>>>>>> overridden
>>>>>> for studio setups).
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Sidefx-houdini-list mailing list
>>>>>> Sidefx-houdini-list at sidefx.com
>>>>>> https://lists.sidefx.com:443/mailman/listinfo/sidefx-houdini-list
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Sidefx-houdini-list mailing list
>>>>> Sidefx-houdini-list at sidefx.com
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> .......................................................................
>>>> Michael Goldfarb                            email: goldfarb at corefa.com
>>>> c.o.r.e. digital pictures                        http://www.coredp.com
>>>> .......................................................................
>>>> "Unless you're an astronaut, secret agent, vampire hunter,
>>>> or all three, you're probably a sellout; screw you."
>>>> - Maddox 2003
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Sidefx-houdini-list mailing list
>>>> Sidefx-houdini-list at sidefx.com
>>>> https://lists.sidefx.com:443/mailman/listinfo/sidefx-houdini-list
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> .......................................................................
>> Michael Goldfarb                            email:  
>> goldfarb at corefa.com
>> c.o.r.e. digital pictures                        http:// 
>> www.coredp.com
>> .......................................................................
>> "Unless you're an astronaut, secret agent, vampire hunter,
>> or all three, you're probably a sellout; screw you."
>> - Maddox 2003
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sidefx-houdini-list mailing list
>> Sidefx-houdini-list at sidefx.com
>> https://lists.sidefx.com:443/mailman/listinfo/sidefx-houdini-list
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> =======================================
> Andrew D Lyons | Digital Artist | http://www.tstex.com
> =======================================
> _______________________________________________
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> https://lists.sidefx.com:443/mailman/listinfo/sidefx-houdini-list



---------
Un saludo
Best Regards
Pablo Giménez
pablogipi at gmail.com







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