[Sidefx-houdini-list] Holding Bone Weights

Louis Dunlevy ld at dneg.com
Tue Jun 12 07:46:34 EDT 2007


I'd be curious to see what people think of this idea of a "relative" 
deform for Houdini bones/metaballs. Any takers?

Cheers
Louis

Louis Dunlevy wrote:
> I was going to suggest the spreadsheet but you're there already I see. 
> A bit messy though. I quite like the sliders on the bones too.
>
> For facial rigs have you had any joy with the Morph tool giving it a 
> rest position? When you hit the "Save Deltas" button it will do an 
> Attribute Orient style deform based on what you've done in your edit 
> SOP. I'm sure you're already aware but just in case..
>
> I really would like to see a new type of bone behaviour like the 
> "relative" mode in Maya's cluster deformer. That lets you throw in 
> tons of extra deformers that have no affect whatsoever until their 
> transform channels have changed. I find the problem with Houdini's 
> bones is that they *always* have an effect on the geometry whether you 
> like it or not. I think it's a big issue for facial rigs and secondary 
> deformers.
>
> Cheers
> Louis
>
> Mark wrote:
>>
>> We've been doing Character stuff.
>> We've been using groups, but you have to watch your cache if you have 
>> too many.  We've run into that problem.
>> The thing is I've tried to work in some sort of procedule way, but 
>> the minute you throw down a capture layer paint you've lost your 
>> proceduralism.
>>
>> So to keep my work flow as procedule as possible, I:
>> Group
>> CaptureOveride those groups
>> and then according to the look I'm trying to get CaptureOveride 
>> points or Paint capture attributes.
>>
>> The problem comes in when you want to hand edit points that have been 
>> smoothed or your just hand editing points with more than two bones 
>> weighted to it.  Three bones is mostly ok, because you can type the 
>> values into the spreed sheet and then normalize.  But, anything 
>> beyond that get's tough.
>>
>> The place that we get most of our problems is doing mouth 
>> deformations with bones.   It's less forgiving when weighting.
>>
>> It's actually good to hear from others who have been working closely 
>> with Houdini's weighting.
>> Holding Weights is the only huge problem I've encountered, and  I 
>> spoke with Kalin a couple of monthes  ago  about  possibly adding 
>> this to Houdini.  I'm not sure what it would take, but he seemed to 
>> understand the problem.
>> -Mark
>>
>>
>> Michael Goldfarb wrote:
>>
>>> are you doing hard surface rigging or character stuff?
>>> I use groups like a madman when using the captureoverride...
>>> can you give me an example of...er...your example?
>>> 'cause I just paint till my hand hurts...monkey with some 
>>> overrides...attribute transfer subdivided sections to the same 
>>> un-subdivided sections...paint some more...etc...
>>>
>>> and yes attribute compositing is the bee's knees...despite it's 
>>> horribe workflow and poor documentation...
>>>
>>> merging geometry with differing attributes (not capture attributes) 
>>> is a nightmare...attribute transfer has saved us huge amounts of 
>>> time/$$$ but could use some refinement for character work...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mark wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hey Michael,
>>>>
>>>> It's definitely desirable, and without out it a bit crippling.
>>>>
>>>> As is, any capture override adjustments to a point averages the 
>>>> weights to the other bones.
>>>> This makes it impossible to get the exact weighting you want.
>>>>
>>>> -Mark
>>>>
>>>> We've really been digging into Houdini's work flow for weighting. 
>>>> And just to mention one of the cooler tools, is the ability to 
>>>> composite weights.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Michael Goldfarb wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I don't know about "almost a must in weighting in any program."
>>>>> but I feel your pain with Houdini's current workflow with weights...
>>>>> all I can suggest is the capture override, but I'm sure you've 
>>>>> been down that road already...
>>>>>
>>>>> Mark Wells wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey Group,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We've been using houdini for Rigging our characters for the past 
>>>>>> 2.5 years.
>>>>>> Houdini has some amazing tools, but It seems that I keep running 
>>>>>> in to the
>>>>>> same problem, which seems essential in working with weights.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm looking for a way to hold bone weights.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For example:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you have 4 bones that you need to weight a single point to.  I 
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> like to lock two of the bones weightings for that point so I'm only
>>>>>> transfering the remaining weights between the other two bones.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This Is extremely helpful, almost a must in weighting in any 
>>>>>> program.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Has anybody overcome this problem?  Is the solution in Houdini 
>>>>>> 9?  Is it
>>>>>> possible to add this feature in upcoming releases?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Mark
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
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